As a charismatic who left the UMC and planted a church called Renewal Church, I don’t recognize myself or our congregation in your portrayal of charismatics. We care deeply about sexual purity and faithfulness.
I didn’t mean to convey that all charismatics aren’t concerned about holiness. I tried to take special effort to show that people can and do have charismatic concerns while placing holiness at the front. That’s where I would put you. Where do you think I could clarify that better in the piece?
The section on charismatics really seemed unrecognizable to the Wesleyan charismatics I know who disaffiliated. I would have to assume you have more data points that I am simply not familiar with.
It came across as a stereotypical critique of charismatics being people who are primarily interested in flash and emotionalism.
In contrast to that stereotype, my closest mentor in the things of the Spirit, a theologically conservative Wesleyan, sent me this as a guiding statement very early on, “Seek character over charisma, holiness over power, and fruit over gifts.
The other thing I would say is the UMC could’ve been wide open to the gifts of the Spirit, and in some ways was in my experience, and I would’ve still left based on what I see as a fundamental difference in their handling of scripture as compared to mine. I am certain my closest charismatic colleagues who are former United Methodists feel the same way.
Matt, I don't doubt any of that. I'm thinking I probably should've just used a different term, like 'feelers' or something. It might not have been smart for me to use terms that actually correspond to already-established theological groups.
I can readily acknowledge that there are a great many who are charismatic in disposition but who also prioritize holiness as a primary concern. I think I understand you to be unable to acknowledge that there are many believers who actually chase the signs of the Spirit without a concern for holiness? Yes, it is a stereotype, and there is a reason for that: because it is often true. I would like to believe that Wesleyan charismatics are better able to guard against the antinomian impulses seen in other charismatic groups, but I haven't yet found a reason to realistically hope for that outside of my great affection for you and many others who are proud charismatics.
I should also say that, despite my rather mundane spiritual practices on a regular basis, I consider myself a charismatic in some capacity, or at least sympathetic to charismatic expressions of the Christian faith...
You are incorrect in thinking I am unable to acknowledge that there are many believers who chase the signs of the Spirit without a concern for holiness.
I readily acknowledge that, as it is a very real corruption within charismatic Christianity. Otherwise it would be unnecessary to emphasize character, fruit, and holiness
As a charismatic who left the UMC and planted a church called Renewal Church, I don’t recognize myself or our congregation in your portrayal of charismatics. We care deeply about sexual purity and faithfulness.
I didn’t mean to convey that all charismatics aren’t concerned about holiness. I tried to take special effort to show that people can and do have charismatic concerns while placing holiness at the front. That’s where I would put you. Where do you think I could clarify that better in the piece?
Thanks Jeffrey.
The section on charismatics really seemed unrecognizable to the Wesleyan charismatics I know who disaffiliated. I would have to assume you have more data points that I am simply not familiar with.
It came across as a stereotypical critique of charismatics being people who are primarily interested in flash and emotionalism.
In contrast to that stereotype, my closest mentor in the things of the Spirit, a theologically conservative Wesleyan, sent me this as a guiding statement very early on, “Seek character over charisma, holiness over power, and fruit over gifts.
The other thing I would say is the UMC could’ve been wide open to the gifts of the Spirit, and in some ways was in my experience, and I would’ve still left based on what I see as a fundamental difference in their handling of scripture as compared to mine. I am certain my closest charismatic colleagues who are former United Methodists feel the same way.
Matt, I don't doubt any of that. I'm thinking I probably should've just used a different term, like 'feelers' or something. It might not have been smart for me to use terms that actually correspond to already-established theological groups.
I can readily acknowledge that there are a great many who are charismatic in disposition but who also prioritize holiness as a primary concern. I think I understand you to be unable to acknowledge that there are many believers who actually chase the signs of the Spirit without a concern for holiness? Yes, it is a stereotype, and there is a reason for that: because it is often true. I would like to believe that Wesleyan charismatics are better able to guard against the antinomian impulses seen in other charismatic groups, but I haven't yet found a reason to realistically hope for that outside of my great affection for you and many others who are proud charismatics.
I should also say that, despite my rather mundane spiritual practices on a regular basis, I consider myself a charismatic in some capacity, or at least sympathetic to charismatic expressions of the Christian faith...
You are incorrect in thinking I am unable to acknowledge that there are many believers who chase the signs of the Spirit without a concern for holiness.
I readily acknowledge that, as it is a very real corruption within charismatic Christianity. Otherwise it would be unnecessary to emphasize character, fruit, and holiness